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 Post subject: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:50 pm 
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I called Dell Tech Support regarding this 8 lanes limitation issue of my XPS 630i and I was transferred to this very soft spoken Dell Tech manager named Muhammad. He explained to me that on previous 650i mobos only the north bridge was being used by the two video card slots, or something like that; and that if I can change the multipliers on the BIOS Setup, under Overclocking, to 16x, I would be fine.

So I just want to confirm from you guys if what he said is true or just a very good excuse. My warranty will expire in October, so I really need to know the truth and what should I do?

Any insights and solutions regarding the XPS 630i would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

P.S. This is my first post here. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:32 pm 
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hello Cherub_GENESIS and welcome in forum.

I can not belive that. DELL is a bogus company :lol:
the nForce 650 chipset have never 16 lanes on both "PEG" had.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/nforce_600i_tech_specs.html

not bad DELL.

but thank´s for the funny info Cherub_GENESIS

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:40 pm 
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If other manufacturer who have 650i SLI and they claim they could control in BIOS to get PCIe Slot #1 to have 16 lanes. I think that is possible, but not with DELL XPS 650i SLI mobo. Dell hard-wire only 8 lanes on each PCIe. Unless Dell have a brand new 650i mobo. I don't think change something in BIOS could get 1 PCIe run 16 lanes.

Kickdown, you are right. 650i SLI can't get both PCIe slot run 16 lanes each :D

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Thanks for the replies guys!

So that Muhammad guy was lying to me!! :x I'm glad that I asked for his extension #. However, I really need your help on how to deal with this guy without telling him directly that he's a liar.

On the other hand, if the mobo will allow me to run a single GTX 295 at 16x I think I can live with that. If I had known about this issue, I definitely wouldn't have bought it in the first place. This really feels like an ugly breakup. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys!

On the other hand, if the mobo will allow me to run a single GTX 295 at 16x I think I can live with that.


As the link that kickdown supplied above shows, a single card will run at 16x.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:04 pm 
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rchris, but that's from the nvidia website, not Dell. I want to know if the Dell version has the same specs, not the one that they show on their website of course, since those are misleading. Could someone confirm that using just one video card on a Dell 650i mobo will not cut it's speed in half, from 16x to 8x? If I am able to run a GTX 295, which is already in SLI mode I believe, with 16 lanes, then there is a way around this 8 lanes problem after all. And I don't need to call back Muhammad. :lol:

Thanks again for all your replies! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:09 pm 
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The truth of the matter is that yes, on a retail 650i mobo the primary GPU slot will run at 16x. Some manuafacturers incorporate a "Card Switch" which allows the user to select single (x16) or dual (x8) for the PCIe x16 slots.

But we have a Dell version, and it has been confirmed that both PCIe x16 connectors have been hardwired to 8x each and therefore there's no way to alter that with a BIOS update.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:42 am 
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billybigfoot wrote:
The truth of the matter is that yes, on a retail 650i mobo the primary GPU slot will run at 16x. Some manuafacturers incorporate a "Card Switch" which allows the user to select single (x16) or dual (x8) for the PCIe x16 slots.

But we have a Dell version, and it has been confirmed that both PCIe x16 connectors have been hardwired to 8x each and therefore there's no way to alter that with a BIOS update.



Just what I have feared the most. If I may ask, how did you resolve this issue with your own XPS 630i? I'm really hoping to avoid to have a clash of words with Muhammad--he really seemed a nice fellow. And that is not my style; but if there is no other options, then I just have to do it. Any advice on how I may approach this?

Thanks again for your feedbacks!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:13 am 
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Well, other than sending your system back for a refund, Dell won't budge an inch (a number of us have tried).

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS,

Muhammad is incorrect. What was his extension?

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:12 pm 
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DELL-Chris_M wrote:
Cherub_GENESIS,

Muhammad is incorrect. What was his extension?



DELL-Chris_M, are you in any way affiliated with Dell? If so, I really, really need your assistance here. Regarding Muhammad's extension # it's 5776095. Please talk to him concerning this issue. I just want this to be solved before the Fall semester starts.

Thanks again guys for all your insights!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
DELL-Chris_M, are you in any way affiliated with Dell?

DELL-Chris_M is Chris Mixon, Dell's "Communites Desktop Liaison" and "Desktop PC Social Media Liaison".

With respect to your issue, the 650i motherboard that Dell ships with the 630i cannot run 16 lanes on either PCIe slot. Both slots run 8 lanes.
The actual impact on performance of a 16-lane card is uncertain.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Aahhh! The 8x vs 16x lane concern. To back-up this discussion that the lanes are both locked at 8x + 8x, refer to the Owner's Manual on the bottom of page 134, you will clearly see that slots 1 & 4 (GFX slots) are both locked at 8 lanes.

This is the case also in order to implement the Xfire on the 650i mobo and also remember, this system was always meant to be a mainstream pc. However, the concern of performance keeps coming up regarding 8x vs 16x. In gaming performance, there is an estimated 7% to 13% (depending on the game). In benchmarking, this is where the performance is more noticeable.

It would of been nice to at least configure their stock mobo like the XFX 750i SLI mobo, having 16x for single gpu and 16x + 8x for SLI or even having 16x + 16x like EVGA 750i FTW mobo. But I guess that's Dell scheme from the beginning to have a mainstream gaming pc and when you start questioning Dell's customer/tech team about wanting more performance, somehow during the discussion, they always mention you can always buy the XPS 700 series...then that's when I say, "What do I suppose to do with this XPS 630i?"

Cherub_GENESIS, good luck with Dell. I hope everything turns out in your favor :)

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:29 pm 
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drBlahMan wrote:
refer to the Owner's Manual on the bottom of page 134, you will clearly see that slots 1 & 4 (GFX slots) are both locked at 8 lanes.


So what you're saying is that Dell is only describing the physical size and shape of the slots when they say PCI-E x16, not the number of electrical lanes available? I thought the x16 in PCI-E x16 refers to the number of lanes. I'm a bit confused here.

drBlahMan wrote:
Cherub_GENESIS, good luck with Dell. I hope everything turns out in your favor :)


I really hope so drBlahMan. I'm still waiting for a response from DELL-Chris_M.


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:34 pm 
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ReverendTed wrote:
Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
DELL-Chris_M, are you in any way affiliated with Dell?

DELL-Chris_M is Chris Mixon, Dell's "Communites Desktop Liaison" and "Desktop PC Social Media Liaison".


Thanks for letting me know more about Chris! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
So what you're saying is that Dell is only describing the physical size and shape of the slots when they say PCI-E x16, not the number of electrical lanes available? I thought the x16 in PCI-E x16 refers to the number of lanes. I'm a bit confused here.

Where does Dell advertise PCIe x16, because that would be false advertising.

(The potential weak argument is that there are two slots, 8 lanes each, for a total of 16 lanes.)

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:20 pm 
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ReverendTed,

To be fair the advertising has now been changed (at least on the UK site, haven't checked the US site) but the original advertising (clip below) was a little...missleading.
Image
At the time when it was pointed out to Dell, many were told that they should have checked the user manual, no link to it or advise on the sales site could be found though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
So what you're saying is that Dell is only describing the physical size and shape of the slots when they say PCI-E x16, not the number of electrical lanes available? I thought the x16 in PCI-E x16 refers to the number of lanes. I'm a bit confused here.


Yes this is absolutely correct, the *Dell* 650i mobo has 2 PCIe x16 slots by size, but each is only a x8 slot electrically. There is no way to change this.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:17 pm 
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I just found this web page this morning: http://www.my630i.com/resources/rebuttal_to_dell%27s_reply_regarding_630i_issues.html. (I don't really care about the LightFX issue, it is not as depressing as the one I keep mentioning here in the forum.)

What the link above suggests if you're unhappy with your purchase is to return the XPS 630i for a full refund (read Dell response no. 2 in blue). However, that offer already expired almost a year ago, and my system was shipped on 10/3/2008. To be frank with you, I just knew about this issue when I decided to upgrade my video card!! :x I'm glad that I still have the warranty, but what good will that do to me if the other end will just make up some very good excuse until it expires?

I just realized that I was not that clear to you about what Muhammad had said to me. He said that Dell is now using a different 650i mobo for the 630i system since the PCI-E x16 slots of previous 650i mobos were sharing the same bridge, or something like that. So this new mobo has now two bridges, I think he called them the north and the south bridge, for the PCI-E x16 slots to use--forgive me if I don't sound "techy" or "techie." :) I'm doing my best here. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
I just realized that I was not that clear to you about what Muhammad had said to me. He said that Dell is now using a different 650i mobo for the 630i system since the PCI-E x16 slots of previous 650i mobos were sharing the same bridge, or something like that. So this new mobo has now two bridges, I think he called them the north and the south bridge, for the PCI-E x16 slots to use--forgive me if I don't sound "techy" or "techie." :) I'm doing my best here. :D


Sounds like he was making it up as he went along... all 650 boards use a north and south bridge, in fact all motherboards do, (except the newer one where the memory controller (which was the northbridge's job) is integrated onto the chip - core i7 for example). The PCIe lanes come through the NB - they don't share with the SB - though this does control the standard PCI lanes.

The reference n650 board already supports 16 lanes through the NB as is, it's only because Dell hardwired the board to only provide 8 lanes to each slot that this is a problem. Nothing at all to do with the controller.

If I were a cynical man I'd even suspect him of trying to confuse/placate you with a bit of technical jargon... If not, it sounds like he doesn't really know what he's on about (my experience with some of these call-centre Dell techs has proved this point before)

Here is a diagram to explain (this is for the 650 ultra btw, not the Dell board - just for reference)
Image

nb - nvidia call the NB the SPP and the SB the MCP, just because they like to be difficult

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:55 pm 
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wintergreen wrote:
Sounds like he was making it up as he went along... all 650 boards use a north and south bridge, in fact all motherboards do, (except the newer one where the memory controller (which was the northbridge's job) is integrated onto the chip - core i7 for example). The PCIe lanes come through the NB - they don't share with the SB - though this does control the standard PCI lanes.

The reference n650 board already supports 16 lanes through the NB as is, it's only because Dell hardwired the board to only provide 8 lanes to each slot that this is a problem. Nothing at all to do with the controller.

If I were a cynical man I'd even suspect him of trying to confuse/placate you with a bit of technical jargon... If not, it sounds like he doesn't really know what he's on about (my experience with some of these call-centre Dell techs has proved this point before)


Thanks for your insightful explanation wintergreen!! I'll try to call Muhammad again since DELL-Chris_M failed to respond. I was really hoping that he would help me.

I never thought Dell would treat me like this. I've been buying Dell products since 2000--I bought two Dell Dimension XPS B800 that year--and never encountered a problem that Dell cannot solve or just ignore.

Thanks again guys for your feedbacks!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:09 am 
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Cherub_GENESIS wrote:
Thanks for your insightful explanation wintergreen!! I'll try to call Muhammad again since DELL-Chris_M failed to respond. I was really hoping that he would help me.

I'm not sure I understand what you expect him to do for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:05 am 
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ReverendTed wrote:
I'm not sure I understand what you expect him to do for you.


Well... why do you think he asked me for Muhammad's extension? He should have at least informed me of what he did or would do or would not do. After all, isn't that his job as a liaison to function as a "connection," not disconnection, which what I got from him? If he doesn't know what to do, then just let me know. Don't just leave me hanging.

Just curious, are you in some way affiliated with or related to DELL-Chris_M? I ask this because you seem to know more about this guy, and the way you defended him and Dell from the previous posts.

Have a good evening guys!! :D


Last edited by Cherub_GENESIS on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:44 pm 
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I'm not affiliated with Dell, or Chris. (My closest affiliation is that I live in the same state.) I've just been on the boards for a few months.

I suspect the reason he asked for Muhammad's extension is so he can contact him (or his call center) and ensure that no further incorrect information is disseminated.
i.e.: "Hey, that's wrong; don't tell people that."

I only asked because it seems like there's something you want to happen, or something you expect to happen, but you haven't actually said what it is.

If that "something" is simply "Hear back from Chris," then my personal perspective is that I wouldn't have expected that. To me, it seemed obvious that he wanted that extension to correct some misinformation. Perhaps he will do something else, but I can't really think of what that might be.

If that "something" is some sort of compensation, then my question would be "for what"? I can see where a company might want to show some form of restitution because a customer was essentially lied to, but that hasn't really been par for the course 'round these parts.

Finally, one last point - I'm not sure how often Chris actually visits this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Dell Tech Manager Said 650i 8 Lanes Problem Have Been Solved
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:49 pm 
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ReverendTed wrote:
I only asked because it seems like there's something you want to happen, or something you expect to happen, but you haven't actually said what it is.


Well... don't you think Dell should be the one telling me what should happen or what is expected to happen, not the other way around? They're the one who got the engineers, the technicians, all the experts needed to solve any problems related to the products they're selling; and I'm just a lone customer. I already explained to you my issue and I just need a solution from Dell, not me.

Just want you to know that I'm not against Dell. Why should I be?! For crying out loud, all of my system units are Dell (I have an XPS M1730 and a refurbished Precision 410 as well).

Enjoy the rest of the day guys!! :D


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